Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: Male
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1546
Thane wrote:
I've got problems with Mr. Yamazaki's writing, but I've admitted on several occasions that I feel like he did a fairly good job writing Dual Destinies for the most part. Aside from the ellipses, the dark age of the law nonsense, the final case and Athena, it really does feel like any other Ace Attorney game to me most of the time.
If you want me to describe why I generally don't like his writing, I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to accurately point out what bothers me. It just feels like his dialogues are lacking in subtlety and charm, and his case scenarios feel like they're just trying to be more impressive than they actually are, if that makes sense.
That, and he treats Edgeworth's logic like it's some kind of superpower.
The bolded part makes sense to me. Yamazaki has yet to write a "normal" case, where the murder is relatively straightforward but the story of it elevates it (1-2, 2-4). Case 5-2 in particular seems unnecessarily convoluted and kind of confusing to the player, because I wasn't sure if there was a supernatural aspect at work, because the series has used that before. Also, the killer isn't as smart as they're made out to be. It's just a series of coincidences that further complicates the case
But the only people who treat logic like a superpower are Gumshoe and Maggey, who aren't that smart anyway.
I never really understood the complaint about the ellipses, though. It could be annoying for a character like Tyrell Badd who uses them a lot (due to lollipop sucking), so the first time you play through a case and can't speed up the text, it can get tedious. However, I feel like there were a lot of ellipses since the first game. I remember playing through the first game with a friend and we said "dotdotdot" every time just an ellipse appeared in a text box. We weren't even counting the occurrences when there was other dialogue in addition. And I think it's more of a problem with the localization than Yamazaki's writing. The text needs to match up with the characters' animations and since Japanese text can get across more meaning with fewer characters, the English version needs to use a lot of ellipses
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Racing through the sky like a Missile
Gender: Female
Location: LA, Japanifornia
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am
Posts: 6180
Thane wrote:
Bad Player wrote:
I've seen that before, but it still made me giggle. I imagine Mr. Yamazaki standing in that crowd being impressed.
No but seriously, without spoiling anything, there's this one particular scene in Gyakuten Kenji 2 where Edgeworth says he "has to use 'that'", and Kay is all like "really?!", and Edgeworth says something about it being like kicking a puppy. Like, he's just about to extract some information from a witness! What in the actual blazes?
But he does extract stuff. All the witnesses are left brain-dead over how he managed to get them to talk. Since this game is supposed to be kid-friendly, I guess they left out the bit about his power to turn people into mindless zombies.
JesusMonroe wrote:
I never really understood the complaint about the ellipses, though. It could be annoying for a character like Tyrell Badd who uses them a lot (due to lollipop sucking), so the first time you play through a case and can't speed up the text, it can get tedious. However, I feel like there were a lot of ellipses since the first game. I remember playing through the first game with a friend and we said "dotdotdot" every time just an ellipse appeared in a text box. We weren't even counting the occurrences when there was other dialogue in addition. And I think it's more of a problem with the localization than Yamazaki's writing. The text needs to match up with the characters' animations and since Japanese text can get across more meaning with fewer characters, the English version needs to use a lot of ellipses
There are a lot of them, but it's not because the English script NEEDS them. It's more because they wanted to mimic the effect presented in the Japanese script, which by itself overuses ellipses. The thing is, in the Japanese script, they can spam dots everywhere without having to worry about timing issues. The use of ellipses is also given just the right amount of time for a character to take a moment before speaking up / responding, as if to give the characters a little extra "realism" to them, so to speak.
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: None specified
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:54 pm
Posts: 8
I really enjoyed cases 5-2 and 5-3, and i'd say those cases are up there with classic ace attorney for me. However, I felt like case 5-1 drags out way too long and the last 2 cases didn't really do it for me. Everything was even cheesier than usual and the voice acting didn't help. The only good thing about case 5-5 was the culprit. And I think even that wasn't pulled off that well.
Overall I didn't "feel" this game like I did with 1,3 and 4 and I feel that Yamazaki has yet to do a good overarching storyline.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: Male
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1546
Vgone wrote:
Overall I didn't "feel" this game like I did with 1,3 and 4 and I feel that Yamazaki has yet to do a good overarching storyline.
I personally think the GK2 storyline is on par with the DL-6 storyline (which is my favorite)
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
1000% Knight
Gender: Male
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm
Posts: 6932
JesusMonroe wrote:
The bolded part makes sense to me. Yamazaki has yet to write a "normal" case, where the murder is relatively straightforward but the story of it elevates it (1-2, 2-4). Case 5-2 in particular seems unnecessarily convoluted and kind of confusing to the player, because I wasn't sure if there was a supernatural aspect at work, because the series has used that before. Also, the killer isn't as smart as they're made out to be. It's just a series of coincidences that further complicates the case
The bolded part makes no sense to me.
xP
I really want(ed) to love 5-2 because it was set up to look like it had a supernatural element, but the intro movie to the case ruined that before it even began.
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
Gender: Male
Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm
Posts: 1637
Dialogue-wise Dual Destinies fared so much better than either of the AAI games, but for me it really faltered after case 2, like I said earlier. I don't get how so many people consider Yamazaki to be as good as Takumi or even surpass him. Even reviews seem oblivious to it. In the past I've been told I have nostalgia-fever, but I strongly disagree (and I know I'm not just a delusional fanboy). The writing in PW123 really makes me laugh out loud. It's hysterical! DD could make me giggle but overall it felt pretentious to me, and the each case also had plagiarism (yes, you can accuse it of having that, because it isn't made by Shu Takumi).
Pre-emptively I'd like to refer to this blog from this french "movie-maker" Casey Neistat: http://caseyneistat.tumblr.com/post/743 ... plagiarism
It's about when art is influenced by the ideas of another person and where the line is drawn between it becoming an inspiration or plagiarism. I'd strongly argue Dual Destinies is not merely inspired by Takumi's games. I know ultimately it's still Ace Attorney (the same franchise) and it's published by Capcom, and certain things needs to be in the games for them to truly be worthy of the Ace Attorney name... but it's the ideas for the scenarios that are sometimes blatant ripoffs rather than fresh concepts.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: Male
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1546
Bad Player wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
The bolded part makes sense to me. Yamazaki has yet to write a "normal" case, where the murder is relatively straightforward but the story of it elevates it (1-2, 2-4). Case 5-2 in particular seems unnecessarily convoluted and kind of confusing to the player, because I wasn't sure if there was a supernatural aspect at work, because the series has used that before. Also, the killer isn't as smart as they're made out to be. It's just a series of coincidences that further complicates the case
The bolded part makes no sense to me.
xP
I really want(ed) to love 5-2 because it was set up to look like it had a supernatural element, but the intro movie to the case ruined that before it even began.
What I meant was that there was a part of the case where Simon was theorizing that Damian killed the Alderman, was discovered by Jinxie, possessed by Tenma Taro, ran downstairs, ran upstairs, and then was unpossessed. People were taking his theory seriously so then I was wondering if Tenma Taro was actually involved in the case (L'Belle wasn't wearing a chicken suit in the opening)
linkenski wrote:
My main problem, I guess, with Yamazaki's "plots" is that they are always so overly complex and bloated. I get that Mr. Eshiro might also be a participant here, since I believe he said it was his goal to make Ace Attorney a more "playable" franchise, thus we have these ridiculous mechanical puzzles in every case like the whole "Space-port 1 and 2" in Dual Destinies or that whole thing about the murder in case 3 of Dual Destinies (put short, it was just extremely ridiculous". Of course these are also nods to Takumi's style but consider that most people absolutely hate the pendulum-swing in 3-5 and people hated 2-3 for its ridiculous setups amongst other things. I just can't grasp why Yamazaki is so fixiated on these kinds of things.
Dialogue-wise Dual Destinies fared so much better than either of the AAI games, but for me it really faltered after case 2, like I said earlier. I don't get how so many people consider Yamazaki to be as good as Takumi or even surpass him. Even reviews seem oblivious to it. In the past I've been told I have nostalgia-fever, but I strongly disagree (and I know I'm not just a delusional fanboy). The writing in PW123 really makes me laugh out loud. It's hysterical! DD could make me giggle but overall it felt pretentious to me, and the each case also had plagiarism (yes, you can accuse it of having that, because it isn't made by Shu Takumi).
Dialogue-wise Dual Destinies fared so much better than either of the AAI games, but for me it really faltered after case 2, like I said earlier. I don't get how so many people consider Yamazaki to be as good as Takumi or even surpass him. Even reviews seem oblivious to it. In the past I've been told I have nostalgia-fever, but I strongly disagree (and I know I'm not just a delusional fanboy). The writing in PW123 really makes me laugh out loud. It's hysterical! DD could make me giggle but overall it felt pretentious to me, and the each case also had plagiarism (yes, you can accuse it of having that, because it isn't made by Shu Takumi).
Maybe I should rephrase my original post. Hypothetically, let's say Case 1-4 was in Dual Destinies instead of the first game. I feel like there would be more critics saying how it was convoluted because von Karma didn't leave any of his blood at the scene of the crime, it's impossible to just let a bullet "heal" inside of your body without a doctor, von Karma was never detected by metal detectors in the courthouse, Edgeworth should've recognized that the person he was talking to wasn't Hammond, etc. (I do love 1-4 by the way). There are convoluted elements in almost every case, but I feel like people are more forgiving of Takumi. Anyway, I don't really understand the first paragraph. I'm not saying your points don't make sense, I just don't understand what you're trying to say
Dialogue-I guess we disagree on this one. If I had to rank the humor of each game, I'd do it like this:
T&T>DD>AAI>AJ>JFA>PW>AAI2 (though I don't think AAI2 is unfunny. I just think the others are funnier)
Humor is subjective, so there's not much we can say on this. I do have a Takumi game as the funniest and Yamazaki game as the least funny, but DD and AAI still rank very high. I just generally laughed more during those
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
1000% Knight
Gender: Male
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm
Posts: 6932
linkenski wrote:
My main problem, I guess, with Yamazaki's "plots" is that they are always so overly complex and bloated.
Well, I still think GK2 was a home run. However, I think the difference between GK2 and DD(+AAI, if you want to do that) is the scope. DD involved the entire legal system and international spies. (AAI involved an international smuggling ring.) GK2's story, however, was very personal. It did involve assassins and international politics, yes, but they were more on the periphery.
Basically, I don't think Yamazaki's plots go bad when they start getting convoluted, but when their scope starts to get too big, like an entire country or an international crime organization.
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: Male
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1546
Takumi-Yogi(brief), Engarde, Alita(debatable)
Yamazaki-Cammy, Alba, a villain in GK2, Means, the Phantom, the DLC villain
If we add witnesses, then Takumi also has Olga, but Yamazaki has Robin and Ou
Not really complaining. It's just something I noticed
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
1000% Knight
Gender: Male
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm
Posts: 6932
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: Male
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1546
I definitely wouldn't count Kristoph, though. His "transformation" is way too subtle. A slight turn of the head and a smile just turns him from friendly into sinister. Same with Dahlia, except it's not as subtle.
If I made a list of villains/witnesses who outright "transform" (as in, significantly change design) instead of just getting an angry/serious face, then it's
Takumi-Engarde, Olga
Yamazaki-Alba, a villain in GK2, Means, the Phantom, DLC villain, Robin, Ou
Bad Player wrote:
Well, I still think GK2 was a home run. However, I think the difference between GK2 and DD(+AAI, if you want to do that) is the scope. DD involved the entire legal system and international spies. (AAI involved an international smuggling ring.) GK2's story, however, was very personal. It did involve assassins and international politics, yes, but they were more on the periphery.
Basically, I don't think Yamazaki's plots go bad when they start getting convoluted, but when their scope starts to get too big, like an entire country or an international crime organization.
Basically, I don't think Yamazaki's plots go bad when they start getting convoluted, but when their scope starts to get too big, like an entire country or an international crime organization.
Agreed. GK2 didn't become about saving the economy of Zheng Fa. It was very briefly mentioned in Case 1 and 5, but that's it. I love AAI, but I didn't get the full story until I replayed it because there were so many people and locations involved, that I lost track of what the KG-8 incident was, the incident with Deid Mann at the Cohdopian embassy, who Cece Yew was (besides a victim that was Calisto's sister), and who Manny Coachen was
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
Gender: Male
Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm
Posts: 1637
JesusMonroe wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that Yamazaki has a lot more villains "transform"? (not including breakdowns)
Takumi-Yogi(brief), Engarde, Alita(debatable)
Yamazaki-Cammy, Alba, a villain in GK2, Means, the Phantom, the DLC villain
If we add witnesses, then Takumi also has Olga, but Yamazaki has Robin and Ou
Not really complaining. It's just something I noticed
Takumi-Yogi(brief), Engarde, Alita(debatable)
Yamazaki-Cammy, Alba, a villain in GK2, Means, the Phantom, the DLC villain
If we add witnesses, then Takumi also has Olga, but Yamazaki has Robin and Ou
Not really complaining. It's just something I noticed
I have noticed a lot. It's another reason ehy I'm not too fond of Yamazaki. It's just a little too overblown and at wordt bizarre for my tastes. (seriously 5-DLC's transformation.... get a grip, dude. That is just too much)
AAI has some really weird ones too. Just... bizarre.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
The video game boy; the one who wins
Gender: Male
Location: Sweden
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:22 pm
Posts: 7747
(......Ack! I've run out of snide comments!)
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
1000% Knight
Gender: Male
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm
Posts: 6932
That might be the closest he's ever going to get...
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Racing through the sky like a Missile
Gender: Female
Location: LA, Japanifornia
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am
Posts: 6180
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: Male
Rank: Suspect
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:48 pm
Posts: 48
This game has it backwards: You show the flashbacks AFTER the player has figured out the twist, not RIGHT BEFORE the moment the game asks for the answer. DX
I mean, I did figure a lot of twists out before the game told me, but it just takes the fun away if it was all for nothing.
Overall, I was disappointed. What I'm hoping for is that AA6 will be to DD what GK2 is to AAI.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
A New Chapter of Trials!
Gender: Female
Location: Eagle Mountain
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:52 am
Posts: 195
Overall though, I REALLY enjoyed DD. Like, probably a bit too much. It had a lot of problems, but nothing that I don't think could be fixed in the future. It just really felt like Ace Attorney to me, even with Yamazaki doing the writing. He doesn't have the same charm and ability that Takumi has, but he brings his own strong points to the game which I enjoyed. For example, I think that Yamazaki is much better at writing the main characters into the plot of the game than Takumi. It actually makes them feel like a part of things. I do hope that Athena has a much less prominent role in the next game than in DD though. Maybe we can have another Apollo-centric game next? *crosses fingers*
I also really liked all of the cases, but I'm a bit mixed about 5-2 and 5-3. Those two just weren't as good for some reason to me, although I can't quite place why. The final case ended up being my 2nd favorite AA case in the end, because it had so many things in it I had really been wanting to see ever since AJ, a really cool concept, and a great villain. The crazy transformations and breakdowns of characters don't really bother me, but actually seem very AA to me. Probably because I started the series with AAI, which has forever biased and corrupted my perception of Ace Attorney.
Eureka!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
Gender: Male
Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm
Posts: 1637
In DD, Phoenix is just the guy who saves the day. He's like Goku in the Majin Buu saga of Dragon Ball Z. The best thing about Phoenix in DD is that he's a mentor who has to make sure his proteges don't get into trouble and he has to fix it when his agency gets into turmoil. DD has it easier to write its protagonist's role into the plot because there's three of them, so can give less attention to each of them compared to if there was only one.
I guess you didn't like 5-2 and 5-3 because they were fillers and they both have moments where they just drag too much.
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
A New Chapter of Trials!
Gender: Female
Location: Eagle Mountain
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:52 am
Posts: 195
linkenski wrote:
You mean to say Phoenix isn't heavily involved in the plot of AA1? You start off defending his childhood friend, then his mentor dies and he has to take her sister under his wing and he helps out another childhood friend who had also become his rival in the final case, not to mention he reveals his childhood days from when he went to school with Edgeworth.
In DD, Phoenix is just the guy who saves the day. He's like Goku in the Majin Buu saga of Dragon Ball Z. The best thing about Phoenix in DD is that he's a mentor who has to make sure his proteges don't get into trouble and he has to fix it when his agency gets into turmoil. DD has it easier to write its protagonist's role into the plot because there's three of them, so can give less attention to each of them compared to if there was only one.
I guess you didn't like 5-2 and 5-3 because they were fillers and they both have moments where they just drag too much.
In DD, Phoenix is just the guy who saves the day. He's like Goku in the Majin Buu saga of Dragon Ball Z. The best thing about Phoenix in DD is that he's a mentor who has to make sure his proteges don't get into trouble and he has to fix it when his agency gets into turmoil. DD has it easier to write its protagonist's role into the plot because there's three of them, so can give less attention to each of them compared to if there was only one.
I guess you didn't like 5-2 and 5-3 because they were fillers and they both have moments where they just drag too much.
I always felt like the first game was more about Edgeworth than Phoenix, but maybe that's just me. It's more like Phoenix is getting dragged into all of these cases by his friends, but it isn't really him being involved on a really personal level. For example, AAI2 is about Edgeworth on a more personal level, while AA1 is more about Edgeworth, and to some extent the Feys. If I were to say any case was really about Phoenix personally, it would be 2-4, since it actually gives him some character development and makes him question himself, but I digress. I did actually like Phoenix in his mentor like role in DD too. It was really interesting seeing him as almost a fusion of his lawyer self and his mysterious cryptic hobo self. Does anyone honestly like the middle filler cases of any AA game that much though?
Eureka!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
迷探偵
Gender: None specified
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:27 am
Posts: 2319
Apollon wrote:
Does anyone honestly like the middle filler cases of any AA game that much though?
Yes. If talking about specifically DD, I think that case two and three were much better and more entertaining than the rather boring last part of the game. I don't really care for the character interaction / 'fan service' of the series and rather prefer just the mysteries, so I often prefer the mystery-oriented middle parts over the 'we-need-to-do-something-epic-and-have-everything-appear-again-and-sorta-talk-about-and-or-with-each-other' last parts of the games.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: Male
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1546
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
A New Chapter of Trials!
Gender: Female
Location: Eagle Mountain
Rank: Decisive Witness
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:52 am
Posts: 195
JesusMonroe wrote:
Yeah. I like the filler cases in AA quite a bit actually. The only filler case that I'd say is bad (on AA standards at least) is 3-3. Only case in the series Id never want to replay
That's interesting, since I like 3-3 quite a bit. I don't dislike all the filler cases necessarily, so that was poor phrasing on my part, but I don't tend to like them as much. Honestly, I would say the number of AA cases I would consider "bad" is none, except possibly 2-3, which just never appealed to me.
Eureka!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gardevoir lover
Gender: Male
Location: Puerto rico
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:20 am
Posts: 2022
JesusMonroe wrote:
Yeah. I like the filler cases in AA quite a bit actually. The only filler case that I'd say is bad (on AA standards at least) is 3-3. Only case in the series Id never want to replay
2-3 is worse.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gettin' Old!
Gender: Male
Location: Scotland
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 14363
JesusMonroe wrote:
Yeah. I like the filler cases in AA quite a bit actually. The only filler case that I'd say is bad (on AA standards at least) is 3-3. Only case in the series Id never want to replay
Yeah I'd be quite happy for the series to go on and just become episodic 'filler' cases rather than overarching plots tied to a game if it meant getting consistent content. The games are all fun enough and I like the characters and mystery and just the drama of everything.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: Male
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1546
Apollon wrote:
That's interesting, since I like 3-3 quite a bit. I don't dislike all the filler cases necessarily, so that was poor phrasing on my part, but I don't tend to like them as much. Honestly, I would say the number of AA cases I would consider "bad" is none, except possibly 2-3, which just never appealed to me.
It's been a while since I played 2-3, but I remember having fun with it. I mean, it was bad, but I wasn't bored playing it. I kind of laughed at the ridiculousness of the writing sometimes and AA fans STILL talk about it to this day. I thought 3-3 was pretty boring and if it wasn't for Jean Armstrong and his theme, I probably would've just skipped it
The good thing about filler cases is that they can have their own "min-climax" so to speak. Hell, 1-5 can be considered a filler case
Pierre wrote:
Yeah I'd be quite happy for the series to go on and just become episodic 'filler' cases rather than overarching plots tied to a game if it meant getting consistent content. The games are all fun enough and I like the characters and mystery and just the drama of everything.
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if Capcom released a game called "AA DLC" that was just a digital download for like $5 that came with a full length case. Every six months or so, another case would be released (probably with another price tag attached). If a dedicated team was working on it, it could work out really well
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gettin' Old!
Gender: Male
Location: Scotland
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 14363
JesusMonroe wrote:
Yeah I'd be quite happy for the series to go on and just become episodic 'filler' cases rather than overarching plots tied to a game if it meant getting consistent content. The games are all fun enough and I like the characters and mystery and just the drama of everything.
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if Capcom released a game called "AA DLC" that was just a digital download for like $5 that came with a full length case. Every six months or so, another case would be released (probably with another price tag attached). If a dedicated team was working on it, it could work out really well[/quote]
That's pretty much what I was thinking, I mean Ace Attorney would be suited to anime format with a different case and more ridiculous characters each week. This is also shown through the manga series they've done which is essentially that. I mean Turnabout Reclaimed is essentially that and it's a fine case. Overarching plots are nice but even they are still episodic and could be done individually provided someone collected all of them.
It'd be the same thing as if collecting a comic. If you miss out on an issue yeah, you'll be out of the loop next one round but they are still released anyway.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
Gender: Male
Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm
Posts: 1637
Klonoahedgehog wrote:
JesusMonroe wrote:
Yeah. I like the filler cases in AA quite a bit actually. The only filler case that I'd say is bad (on AA standards at least) is 3-3. Only case in the series Id never want to replay
2-3 is worse.
And 3-3 is not bad at all. It's the second best case of T&T next to 3-2 IMO.
I like what Pierre is saying. I too, am sometimes more fond of each case being standalone rather than having this overarching and overpromising plot that ultimately leads up to a pretty simple conclusion. Admittedly AAI2 is a bit more complex but I still thought you could remove at least one of cases from the past, rewrite it to only have 2 past cases intertwining and it would've been better and less messy. I think Dual Destinies' problem is that it feels like things just don't add up at the end. All those intriguing mysteries get dissolved as you get an unrewarding answer because the motivations of the characters that essentially start the entire plot don't seem that compelling.
Spoiler:
If all of DD's story just happened in one case, maybe I wouldn't have been so disappointed, but because it starts off by engaging you with its plot you're craving for the answers, but after beating it, you just realize there wasn't so much to it after all the buildup.
I think the first game and the second game did things right by mostly being filler but then having small elements of case 2 tie into the final case and the final case opened up most of the overarching plot instead of the game constantly teasing you from the get-go. Then again, I thought AJ:AA was cool because of all the buildup it had; maybe I'm just not fond of the way overarching plots work in AAI and DD? I just think, if the story itself ends up being a rather simple one on paper, then maybe the writer should hold off on trying to make it seem like a big deal that drags out over the entire game?
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: Male
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1546
linkenski wrote:
Spoiler:
I think it's definitely alluded that we'll get the answer to this one in GS6. I mean, we didn't get the answer to all the branch family stuff and DL-6 right off the bat either
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
1000% Knight
Gender: Male
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm
Posts: 6932
linkenski wrote:
If all of DD's story just happened in one case, maybe I wouldn't have been so disappointed
You mean 1-5?
JesusMonroe wrote:
I think it's definitely alluded that we'll get the answer to this one in GS6. I mean, we didn't get the answer to all the branch family stuff and DL-6 right off the bat either
After literally nothing from AJ returned in GS5 except for Polly and Trucy themselves, I'm not holding out any hopes for explanations in GS6.
(And honestly, I think I'd prefer it if it didn't. One of the things I didn't like about DD was how impersonal the plot and motives were, and just going deeper into the international political intrigue plot seems like the wrong thing to do.)
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Racing through the sky like a Missile
Gender: Female
Location: LA, Japanifornia
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am
Posts: 6180
Also, GS6 may end up throwing everything from GS5 out the window along with GS4, but that depends more on which team is working on it. Since Takumi's busy with DGS and Eshiro had announced plans for GK3, GS6 is entirely up in the air for a third team to go for it, if they have a third team.
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gettin' Old!
Gender: Male
Location: Scotland
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 14363
The cases can stay personal and interesting, I just don't think people should discount filler cases, I think most of the cases I'm more interested in the witnesses than anything else and how entertaining and interesting they can be. Sure the stories revolving around Maya and Nick and the main party are good but I find they are quite limiting in terms of scope. If it's about Maya it's gotta be about Channeling, if it's about Nick it's going to involve either Mia or more likely Edgeworth and Larry.
Filler cases that focus on non-personal stories allow for more fantastical and varied witnesses and events.
Made by Chesu+Zombee
You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
1000% Knight
Gender: Male
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm
Posts: 6932
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
I honestly don't care how personal the plot gets. Some of the cases in past titles weren't personal either, and others that tried to get personal weren't emotionally investing enough. I just want some good mystery material to work with, and political intrigue isn't a bad place to start.
I want a good mystery too, but I think political intrigue plots can easily slip from "mystery" into "thriller".
I guess a lot of it isn't the idea itself, but also the execution. If they had given Phantom a more compelling reason for his initial actions, and developed Athena/Simon's relationship...
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gender: None specified
Rank: Prosecutor
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:47 pm
Posts: 970
Last edited by Thane on Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
1000% Knight
Gender: Male
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm
Posts: 6932
Thane wrote:
On the subject of filler cases, I think it depends on when and how you implement them. Justice for All, for instance, had no overarching story, and so pretty much every case felt filler-ish to me, even though 2-2 and 2-4 are pretty darn solid. However, 5-2, while a fun case in its own right, felt like an abrupt interruption of progression to me, since the game showed you Apollo leaving the Agency after the first case, only to be immediately followed by a flashback case. Two, in fact, now that I think about it.
Two and a half
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Racing through the sky like a Missile
Gender: Female
Location: LA, Japanifornia
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am
Posts: 6180
Bad Player wrote:
Thane wrote:
On the subject of filler cases, I think it depends on when and how you implement them. Justice for All, for instance, had no overarching story, and so pretty much every case felt filler-ish to me, even though 2-2 and 2-4 are pretty darn solid. However, 5-2, while a fun case in its own right, felt like an abrupt interruption of progression to me, since the game showed you Apollo leaving the Agency after the first case, only to be immediately followed by a flashback case. Two, in fact, now that I think about it.
Two and a half
Three and a half
There's nothing wrong with making cases that don't seem to connect. In fact, collections of detective stories tend to work better if they aren't connected. If they are, then it could end up feeling like the same case is split apart, and the mystery behind a crime usually doesn't consist of a great mystery on par with whatever Layton & co. get themselves into. A conspiracy, on the other hand, could definitely work as one. It doesn't have to be a political conspiracy, but going bigger and badder with conspiracies tend to involve more action and drama.
Of course, we could always just stick with stuff that happens around town until the end of time, but... that's not satisfying as a series finale, ya know?
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
1000% Knight
Gender: Male
Rank: Moderators
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:06 pm
Posts: 6932
technically the DLC case isn't immediately following
Credit to Evolina for the sig+avatar!
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
迷探偵
Gender: None specified
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:27 am
Posts: 2319
Spoiler: Both DD and Danganronpa (1)
As for connecting 'loose' cases, I wouldn't really like political intrigue / conspiricies as the connecting factor, again as it doesn't really fit GS's tone, I think. GK, maybe. Aibou? Yes. But that doesn't mean that therefore such stories can't be related to each other. I for one would love a stronger focus on a main theme (no, not the dark age) over the course of multiple stories without a real connection. "Believing in your client" would have been a major theme for many early cases, and GS2-4 in turn not only works as an obvious subversion of that, but it strengthens the connection too (i.e. up-until-the-theme-was-x). One could do that with less obvious themes too. And with broader themes, you could also go a far way. Yamada Fuutarou's Youi Kinpeibai was a short story collection that was connected through plot, but also by the theme of (twisted, obsessive) love (The stories in his Meiji Dantoudai, probably an inspiration for DGS, were connected through the effects caused by the Meiji restoration, w/o going political intrigue). Or what about Christie's Partners in Crime, a wonderful example of an overarching theme, even the stories are all quite different (-> parodies of famous detective characters of the time). I sometimes write detective short stories, but these stories aren't just connected through the characters, but I've been playing around with the form of each story, which is another connecting factor you'll only see if you read more than one of them.
"One dumbbell, Watson! Consider an athlete with one dumbbell! Picture to yourself the unilateral development, the imminent danger of a spinal curvature. Shocking, Watson, shocking!" - The Valley of Fear
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
"I'm so sick of Khura'in!"
Gender: Male
Location: The localized equivalent of Denmark
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm
Posts: 1637
)
This is the Dark Age of the Ace Attorney
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Racing through the sky like a Missile
Gender: Female
Location: LA, Japanifornia
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:17 am
Posts: 6180
On second thought,
Spoiler: PLvsAA
The home of the Gyakuten Saiban vs Ace Attorney blog: http://gyakutengagotoku.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
1/3/19 edit: The project has officially been moved to a new blog at https://gsvsaa.blogspot.com/ Further updates will be pending.
AA fanfiction archive: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31369
Yakuza/RGG fanfiction archive: https://archiveofourown.org/users/rubia ... /rubia_ryu
My misc translation and work promos here at http://rubiaryutheroyal.tumblr.com
Re: What do you think of Dual Destinies?
Gettin' Old!
Gender: Male
Location: Scotland
Rank: Ace Attorney
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 14363
Rubia Ryu the Royal wrote:
Well, I'm not suggesting the series should take a turn for CSI, but I honestly believe the political intrigue they've set up here could be taken somewhere. One case is all I ask for. And besides, it's the best way to bring in the blue people; they're obviously behind everything.
On second thought,
On second thought,
Spoiler: PLvsAA
Hey come on now...
Spoiler: PLvsAA
Made by Chesu+Zombee
You thought you could be safe in your courts, with your laws and attorneys to protect you. In this world only I am law, my word is fact, my power is absolute.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
News